My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California
Hey Folks,
Thank you in advance for any opinions and guidance.
I received an Automated Enforcement Traffic Violation for VC 21453C in San Francisco at Fell and Masonic. I know these tickets have been discussed in these forums before, but I cannot find threads that include my questions.
Here are my thoughts and questions.
1.The red light is not visible in either the picture or video. You can see what appears to be a reddish light, but cannot see the signal itself nor make out the red left arrow. A tree is blocking the view, and in the video the wind moves the tree and you can see more or less reddish light as the tree moves. An insert that came with the citation says the following, "...The video also captures the traffic signal to show what color is illuminated during the violation." Further, there are also red pedestrian and red bicycle signals in the same cluster as the red arrow traffic signal. Since the insert says it captures the traffic signal does that mean the whole black signal including three bulbs must be visible? Also, the other green straight arrow and two solid green signals are visible in both video and picture.
2.The citation itself says "Red Sec 44.2", but the first image shows the front of the vehicle clearly 3 to 5 feet in front of the crosswalk line at a time stamp of "RED=44.2". And, the second image shows the vehicle at a complete stop with the rear half in the crosswalk at a time stamp of "RED=46.2". Since the citation says 44.2, and the image shows no violation at that time, does that mean a dismissible error occurred?
3.Now here is where my potentially confusing real argument comes in. VC 21453C states, "A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown." the vehicle did not make the left turn until the left arrow light turned green, and there is 3-5 feet from the end of the crosswalk to the start of the roadway of the cross street. And, I do not think the vehicle entered the intersection. From the images, it is not clear if the vehicle did or did not enter the intersection. And, if the vehicle did enter the intersection it was a movement permitted by THREE other signals. *I have read threads where this theory was proposed and dismissed by some members, however in those threads there were lights above each lane. At this intersection the lights are not above each lane. There are five lanes, 4 straight and one left only. There are 2 left arrow signals right next to each other, one straight arrow signal, and two solid green circles near the farthest right lane. Is this argument any good? Essentially, the vehicle did not make the movement out lined, it is not clear if the vehicle is actually in the intersection and there were other signals permitting forward movement into the intersection.
Thank you!
Hey Folks,
Thank you in advance for any opinions and guidance.
I received an Automated Enforcement Traffic Violation for VC 21453C in San Francisco at Fell and Masonic. I know these tickets have been discussed in these forums before, but I cannot find threads that include my questions.
Here are my thoughts and questions.
1.The red light is not visible in either the picture or video. You can see what appears to be a reddish light, but cannot see the signal itself nor make out the red left arrow. A tree is blocking the view, and in the video the wind moves the tree and you can see more or less reddish light as the tree moves. An insert that came with the citation says the following, "...The video also captures the traffic signal to show what color is illuminated during the violation." Further, there are also red pedestrian and red bicycle signals in the same cluster as the red arrow traffic signal. Since the insert says it captures the traffic signal does that mean the whole black signal including three bulbs must be visible? Also, the other green straight arrow and two solid green signals are visible in both video and picture.
2.The citation itself says "Red Sec 44.2", but the first image shows the front of the vehicle clearly 3 to 5 feet in front of the crosswalk line at a time stamp of "RED=44.2". And, the second image shows the vehicle at a complete stop with the rear half in the crosswalk at a time stamp of "RED=46.2". Since the citation says 44.2, and the image shows no violation at that time, does that mean a dismissible error occurred?
3.Now here is where my potentially confusing real argument comes in. VC 21453C states, "A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown." the vehicle did not make the left turn until the left arrow light turned green, and there is 3-5 feet from the end of the crosswalk to the start of the roadway of the cross street. And, I do not think the vehicle entered the intersection. From the images, it is not clear if the vehicle did or did not enter the intersection. And, if the vehicle did enter the intersection it was a movement permitted by THREE other signals. *I have read threads where this theory was proposed and dismissed by some members, however in those threads there were lights above each lane. At this intersection the lights are not above each lane. There are five lanes, 4 straight and one left only. There are 2 left arrow signals right next to each other, one straight arrow signal, and two solid green circles near the farthest right lane. Is this argument any good? Essentially, the vehicle did not make the movement out lined, it is not clear if the vehicle is actually in the intersection and there were other signals permitting forward movement into the intersection.
Thank you!
Traffic Lights, Signs and Controls: California VC 21453 C
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